Hi Kenny, I'm enjoying the reples to your article. When I went to your reference in John 10:30 I read the whole context of the passage starting at verse 30 all the way to verse 42. The issue the Jews had with Jesus (and the reason they wanted to kill him) was in fact that he did claim to be the Son of God (v.36). Was he lying, or trying to imply something else, when he said that? He claimed the miracles he performed were to prove that unbelievable statement about himself (v.37). Many people believed his statement to be true because of his miracles, and therefore had enough evidence to believe in him (v.41 & 42).
But then I have this question for anyone today who doubts Jesus was God in the flesh. Can anyone besides God forgive humans of their sins? Please read the full context of Matthew 9:1-8, and explain how Jesus is not God. If he is not God, then what is the point of that event?
Thank you for your insightful comments. I wholeheartedly agree with the points you’ve made. Jesus’ claim to be the Son of God in John 10:36 is undeniable, and as you pointed out, His miracles served as evidence of His divine nature (John 10:37-38). The response of those who believed in Him (John 10:41-42) highlights the importance of recognizing who He truly is.
Your reference to Matthew 9:1-8 is also spot on. Jesus not only healed the paralytic but also forgave his sins, prompting the scribes to accuse Him of blasphemy—because only God can forgive sins. Yet Jesus, knowing their thoughts, proved His authority by healing the man, demonstrating that He indeed has the power to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6). This passage, along with many others, affirms the truth that Jesus is God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9).
This is such an important topic, as many seek the truth and desire to study these matters deeply. I appreciate the discussion and will continue my study on this subject. In the near future, I plan to write an article exploring this topic further.
Hi Steve, thank you for taking the time to read my article—I truly appreciate it. I do however, respectfully disagree with your statement, as Jesus Himself claimed to be God, and this truth is consistently revealed throughout Scripture.
In John 8:58, Jesus declares, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” This is a direct reference to Exodus 3:14, where God reveals His name to Moses as “I AM WHO I AM.” The Jews understood Jesus’ claim, which is why they attempted to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59).
In John 10:30, Jesus says, “I and My Father are one.” The Jews again sought to stone Him, saying, “because You, being a Man, make Yourself God” (John 10:33).
Thomas, one of His disciples, worshiped Jesus after His resurrection, saying, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). Jesus did not rebuke him but affirmed his belief.
Paul also confirms Jesus' deity in Colossians 2:9, stating, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”
Jesus’ claim to divinity does not undermine His accomplishments—it magnifies them. Only God could take on human flesh (John 1:1, 14), live a sinless life, and provide the perfect sacrifice for our sins. His resurrection proves His power over death (Romans 1:4).
I truly appreciate your perspective and the time you took to share it. This is an important discussion, and I look forward to further expanding on it in a future article. Thank you again!
The John 8:58 like other texts you mention, require additional meaning added to draw your conclusions. Does 8:58 actually say Jesus is God? No. You are adding that assumption.
10:30 one what? Again you are adding in some idea of one substance or one being - it doesn’t say that. Further Jesus does explain what he means in 17:11,22-3.
I’m the one allowing the Bible to self-interpret, while you are not. Why add so many unwarranted things to God’s word?
No biblical verse describes an incarnation, Jesus having ‘dual natures’, being ‘co-equal’, ‘eternally begotten’, ‘one substance’ or a ‘God the Son’.
All added. I’m simply pointing out that popular theological theories are not biblically based. Does anyone care?
I want to be clear that I am not trying to add anything to God’s word—I am simply sharing what I believe Scripture itself teaches. If you have verses that explicitly state Jesus is not God, I would genuinely like to see them.
John 8:58 – Who Does Jesus Say He Is?
In John 8:53, the Jews directly ask Jesus, “Who do You make Yourself out to be?” Jesus answers them in verse 58: “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” He is not avoiding their question—He is telling them exactly who He is.
The phrase “I AM” (ego eimi) is the same name God used for Himself in Exodus 3:14: “I AM WHO I AM.” The Jews clearly understood this as a claim to divinity because their immediate response was to pick up stones to kill Him (John 8:59), which was the penalty for blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16). If Jesus was only claiming to exist before Abraham, why would they react this way?
John 10:30 – One in What Way?
You asked, "One what?" when Jesus said, “I and My Father are one.” Again, no assumption is being made—just looking at the context. The Jews understood Jesus to be claiming equality with God, as they responded in verse 33:
“For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
If they misunderstood Him, this would have been the perfect moment for Jesus to correct them. Instead, He affirms His unity with the Father.
Yes, in John 17:11, 22-23, Jesus speaks of believers being one, but that is a unity of purpose and fellowship. However, in John 10:30, the Jews’ reaction shows they understood Him to be claiming something much greater—equality with God.
Does the Bible Describe Incarnation?
You said no biblical verse describes an incarnation, but Scripture does speak of God taking on flesh:
John 1:1, 14 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” The Word (Jesus) is called God, and He became flesh—this is incarnation.
Philippians 2:6-8 – “[Jesus] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.” This clearly describes Jesus existing in God’s form before coming in human flesh.
Colossians 2:9 – “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” The fullness of deity dwelt in Jesus in bodily form.
Does the Bible Teach Jesus Had Two Natures?
John 1:1, 14 – Jesus is both God (divine) and became flesh (human).
Hebrews 2:14 – “Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same.” He took on human nature to redeem mankind.
Does the Bible Teach Co-equality with the Father?
John 5:18 – “Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.” The Jews understood Jesus’ claim—again, He did not correct them.
Colossians 1:15-17 – “He is the image of the invisible God… For by Him all things were created… and in Him all things consist.” Jesus is the creator and sustainer of all things—something only God can be.
If you believe Scripture explicitly states that Jesus is not God, I would genuinely like to see those verses. My goal is to follow Scripture alone, not theological traditions.
Thanks again for the respectful conversation. I hope it can be beneficial for both of us and anyone who comes across the comments.
Glad for your responses. We see several examples of ‘ego eimi’ by the blind man, the disciples and Paul. So the idea of the capitalised I Am meaning what is proposed is eisegetical.
Paul also expressed his desire that we all be filled with the fullness of God. Again, your suggestion that these ( and all the other) proof texts mean something to support Jesus’ deity are false and empty.
And the Jews thought Jesus had a demon. And broke the sabbath so you are claiming veracity of one obscure comment and ignoring context. Jesus didn’t claim equality - the angry Jews did - looking for something to accuse him to justify their hatred.
Every trinity proof texts mean as we’ve seen with these few are without merit or validity.
Unless you’re willing to see how you are using inferences and conjecture instead of biblical context, we should stop here.
I really appreciate your responses and also thank you for sharing that article and the time it took to put it together. It’s always helpful for readers to see where explanations and interpretations are coming from so that they can go to the Scriptures themselves and examine the truth. While we obviously do not agree on this issue, I do appreciate the back and forth and the opportunity to understand where you’re coming from, as well as to clarify where I stand.
That said, I think it’s important to acknowledge that inference and interpretation go both ways in this discussion. We both hold to what we have set forth—either that Jesus is God according to Scripture, or that He is not—but just as you say my side has not provided proof, the same could be said for your position. The context of these passages is interpreted differently by both of us, with each believing we are correct, yet neither seeing the solid proof of what the other is presenting.
So as you said, we can probably stop here, as both sides have been laid out clearly for others to consider. But by all means, feel free to add anything more if you wish. At the end of the day, my desire is for all of us to seek truth in God’s Word alone, and I appreciate the discussion.
I pray we can all continue to go to scripture and grow in understanding as we seek the truth.
Again, I appreciate the discussion, and I want to be clear that I am simply sharing what I believe to be true based on what Scripture says—not my own opinions. If you have Scripture that explicitly states Jesus is not God, I would be more than happy to see it.
That said, I do have a genuine concern. You mentioned that you stopped reading after my claim about Jesus' deity. If there isn't a willingness to respectfully engage with Scripture, then there really isn’t a place for meaningful conversation. I’m open to discussing this, but only if it’s going to be a two-way exchange where we both take the time to consider what the other is saying.
You mentioned that Jesus said He has the same God we do—the Father. I absolutely believe Him. However, how do you reconcile that with the passages where Jesus claims divinity? In John 8:58, He says, “Before Abraham was, I AM,” using the same name God used in Exodus 3:14. In John 10:30, He states, “I and My Father are one,” which led the Jews to accuse Him of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God (John 10:33). John 1:1-3 clearly states that “the Word was God” and that all things were made through Him. Colossians 2:9 says, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”
If these passages (and others) do not support Jesus’ deity, could you explain why? And if Jesus is not God, could you show me where Scripture explicitly states that?
Regarding the necessity of Jesus’ sacrifice, Isaiah 53 prophesied that the Messiah would bear our iniquities, and Hebrews 9:22 states, “without shedding of blood there is no remission.” If no mere man could provide atonement for sin, who else but Jesus—the sinless, perfect Lamb of God—could accomplish it (John 1:29, 1 Peter 1:18-19)?
My goal is to always seek truth from God’s word, but that requires a genuine and respectful exchange.
I'm attaching two articles that give further explanation that give insight as to what I believe scripture teaches. Again my goal is never to win an argument, but rather to share what I believe to be true according to scripture.
This article powerfully reminds us that honoring Yeshua goes beyond words—it’s a life of obedience rooted in love (John 14:15). Scripture reveals Him as the Messiah who fulfills the Torah, not abolishes it (Matthew 5:17), calling us to reflect His righteousness (tsedeqah) in all we do. While overt mockery wounds His heart, subtle inconsistencies—like lukewarm faith or trivializing sin—also grieve Him, as they dim the light of His grace and truth. Let’s examine ourselves daily (2 Corinthians 13:5), trusting His forgiveness (1 John 1:9) to realign us with His purpose, so our lives proclaim the King who redeemed us—not just in creed, but in also deed.
Hi Kenny, I'm enjoying the reples to your article. When I went to your reference in John 10:30 I read the whole context of the passage starting at verse 30 all the way to verse 42. The issue the Jews had with Jesus (and the reason they wanted to kill him) was in fact that he did claim to be the Son of God (v.36). Was he lying, or trying to imply something else, when he said that? He claimed the miracles he performed were to prove that unbelievable statement about himself (v.37). Many people believed his statement to be true because of his miracles, and therefore had enough evidence to believe in him (v.41 & 42).
But then I have this question for anyone today who doubts Jesus was God in the flesh. Can anyone besides God forgive humans of their sins? Please read the full context of Matthew 9:1-8, and explain how Jesus is not God. If he is not God, then what is the point of that event?
Hi Drew,
Thank you for your insightful comments. I wholeheartedly agree with the points you’ve made. Jesus’ claim to be the Son of God in John 10:36 is undeniable, and as you pointed out, His miracles served as evidence of His divine nature (John 10:37-38). The response of those who believed in Him (John 10:41-42) highlights the importance of recognizing who He truly is.
Your reference to Matthew 9:1-8 is also spot on. Jesus not only healed the paralytic but also forgave his sins, prompting the scribes to accuse Him of blasphemy—because only God can forgive sins. Yet Jesus, knowing their thoughts, proved His authority by healing the man, demonstrating that He indeed has the power to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6). This passage, along with many others, affirms the truth that Jesus is God in the flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9).
This is such an important topic, as many seek the truth and desire to study these matters deeply. I appreciate the discussion and will continue my study on this subject. In the near future, I plan to write an article exploring this topic further.
Thanks again for adding to the conversation!
Very sadly, Christianity mocks Jesus by claiming he is God. Totally undermining what he accomplished.
Hi Steve, thank you for taking the time to read my article—I truly appreciate it. I do however, respectfully disagree with your statement, as Jesus Himself claimed to be God, and this truth is consistently revealed throughout Scripture.
In John 8:58, Jesus declares, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” This is a direct reference to Exodus 3:14, where God reveals His name to Moses as “I AM WHO I AM.” The Jews understood Jesus’ claim, which is why they attempted to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59).
In John 10:30, Jesus says, “I and My Father are one.” The Jews again sought to stone Him, saying, “because You, being a Man, make Yourself God” (John 10:33).
Thomas, one of His disciples, worshiped Jesus after His resurrection, saying, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). Jesus did not rebuke him but affirmed his belief.
Paul also confirms Jesus' deity in Colossians 2:9, stating, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”
Jesus’ claim to divinity does not undermine His accomplishments—it magnifies them. Only God could take on human flesh (John 1:1, 14), live a sinless life, and provide the perfect sacrifice for our sins. His resurrection proves His power over death (Romans 1:4).
I truly appreciate your perspective and the time you took to share it. This is an important discussion, and I look forward to further expanding on it in a future article. Thank you again!
The John 8:58 like other texts you mention, require additional meaning added to draw your conclusions. Does 8:58 actually say Jesus is God? No. You are adding that assumption.
10:30 one what? Again you are adding in some idea of one substance or one being - it doesn’t say that. Further Jesus does explain what he means in 17:11,22-3.
I’m the one allowing the Bible to self-interpret, while you are not. Why add so many unwarranted things to God’s word?
No biblical verse describes an incarnation, Jesus having ‘dual natures’, being ‘co-equal’, ‘eternally begotten’, ‘one substance’ or a ‘God the Son’.
All added. I’m simply pointing out that popular theological theories are not biblically based. Does anyone care?
I want to be clear that I am not trying to add anything to God’s word—I am simply sharing what I believe Scripture itself teaches. If you have verses that explicitly state Jesus is not God, I would genuinely like to see them.
John 8:58 – Who Does Jesus Say He Is?
In John 8:53, the Jews directly ask Jesus, “Who do You make Yourself out to be?” Jesus answers them in verse 58: “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” He is not avoiding their question—He is telling them exactly who He is.
The phrase “I AM” (ego eimi) is the same name God used for Himself in Exodus 3:14: “I AM WHO I AM.” The Jews clearly understood this as a claim to divinity because their immediate response was to pick up stones to kill Him (John 8:59), which was the penalty for blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16). If Jesus was only claiming to exist before Abraham, why would they react this way?
John 10:30 – One in What Way?
You asked, "One what?" when Jesus said, “I and My Father are one.” Again, no assumption is being made—just looking at the context. The Jews understood Jesus to be claiming equality with God, as they responded in verse 33:
“For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
If they misunderstood Him, this would have been the perfect moment for Jesus to correct them. Instead, He affirms His unity with the Father.
Yes, in John 17:11, 22-23, Jesus speaks of believers being one, but that is a unity of purpose and fellowship. However, in John 10:30, the Jews’ reaction shows they understood Him to be claiming something much greater—equality with God.
Does the Bible Describe Incarnation?
You said no biblical verse describes an incarnation, but Scripture does speak of God taking on flesh:
John 1:1, 14 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” The Word (Jesus) is called God, and He became flesh—this is incarnation.
Philippians 2:6-8 – “[Jesus] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.” This clearly describes Jesus existing in God’s form before coming in human flesh.
Colossians 2:9 – “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” The fullness of deity dwelt in Jesus in bodily form.
Does the Bible Teach Jesus Had Two Natures?
John 1:1, 14 – Jesus is both God (divine) and became flesh (human).
Hebrews 2:14 – “Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same.” He took on human nature to redeem mankind.
Does the Bible Teach Co-equality with the Father?
John 5:18 – “Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.” The Jews understood Jesus’ claim—again, He did not correct them.
Colossians 1:15-17 – “He is the image of the invisible God… For by Him all things were created… and in Him all things consist.” Jesus is the creator and sustainer of all things—something only God can be.
If you believe Scripture explicitly states that Jesus is not God, I would genuinely like to see those verses. My goal is to follow Scripture alone, not theological traditions.
Thanks again for the respectful conversation. I hope it can be beneficial for both of us and anyone who comes across the comments.
Glad for your responses. We see several examples of ‘ego eimi’ by the blind man, the disciples and Paul. So the idea of the capitalised I Am meaning what is proposed is eisegetical.
Paul also expressed his desire that we all be filled with the fullness of God. Again, your suggestion that these ( and all the other) proof texts mean something to support Jesus’ deity are false and empty.
And the Jews thought Jesus had a demon. And broke the sabbath so you are claiming veracity of one obscure comment and ignoring context. Jesus didn’t claim equality - the angry Jews did - looking for something to accuse him to justify their hatred.
Every trinity proof texts mean as we’ve seen with these few are without merit or validity.
Unless you’re willing to see how you are using inferences and conjecture instead of biblical context, we should stop here.
Thx again.
https://open.substack.com/pub/dfinster/p/why-the-few-proof-texts-quoted-for?r=4bo2uv&utm_medium=ios
I really appreciate your responses and also thank you for sharing that article and the time it took to put it together. It’s always helpful for readers to see where explanations and interpretations are coming from so that they can go to the Scriptures themselves and examine the truth. While we obviously do not agree on this issue, I do appreciate the back and forth and the opportunity to understand where you’re coming from, as well as to clarify where I stand.
That said, I think it’s important to acknowledge that inference and interpretation go both ways in this discussion. We both hold to what we have set forth—either that Jesus is God according to Scripture, or that He is not—but just as you say my side has not provided proof, the same could be said for your position. The context of these passages is interpreted differently by both of us, with each believing we are correct, yet neither seeing the solid proof of what the other is presenting.
So as you said, we can probably stop here, as both sides have been laid out clearly for others to consider. But by all means, feel free to add anything more if you wish. At the end of the day, my desire is for all of us to seek truth in God’s Word alone, and I appreciate the discussion.
I pray we can all continue to go to scripture and grow in understanding as we seek the truth.
From the claim about Jesus’ deity I stopped reading. Jesus said he has the same God we do - the Father. Do you not believe him?
You have offered the usual proof texts which do not support Jesus’ deity.
Happy to show you why if really interested.
If Jesus was God - why was this necessary? Nowhere are we told that God must die for sinners.
Again, I appreciate the discussion, and I want to be clear that I am simply sharing what I believe to be true based on what Scripture says—not my own opinions. If you have Scripture that explicitly states Jesus is not God, I would be more than happy to see it.
That said, I do have a genuine concern. You mentioned that you stopped reading after my claim about Jesus' deity. If there isn't a willingness to respectfully engage with Scripture, then there really isn’t a place for meaningful conversation. I’m open to discussing this, but only if it’s going to be a two-way exchange where we both take the time to consider what the other is saying.
You mentioned that Jesus said He has the same God we do—the Father. I absolutely believe Him. However, how do you reconcile that with the passages where Jesus claims divinity? In John 8:58, He says, “Before Abraham was, I AM,” using the same name God used in Exodus 3:14. In John 10:30, He states, “I and My Father are one,” which led the Jews to accuse Him of blasphemy for making Himself equal with God (John 10:33). John 1:1-3 clearly states that “the Word was God” and that all things were made through Him. Colossians 2:9 says, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”
If these passages (and others) do not support Jesus’ deity, could you explain why? And if Jesus is not God, could you show me where Scripture explicitly states that?
Regarding the necessity of Jesus’ sacrifice, Isaiah 53 prophesied that the Messiah would bear our iniquities, and Hebrews 9:22 states, “without shedding of blood there is no remission.” If no mere man could provide atonement for sin, who else but Jesus—the sinless, perfect Lamb of God—could accomplish it (John 1:29, 1 Peter 1:18-19)?
My goal is to always seek truth from God’s word, but that requires a genuine and respectful exchange.
I'm attaching two articles that give further explanation that give insight as to what I believe scripture teaches. Again my goal is never to win an argument, but rather to share what I believe to be true according to scripture.
https://westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com/topical/concrete/who-is-god.html#:~:text=Jesus%20is%20considered%20a%20created,force%20that%20is%20not%20God.
https://westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com/topical/diff_quest/biblical_trinity.html
This article powerfully reminds us that honoring Yeshua goes beyond words—it’s a life of obedience rooted in love (John 14:15). Scripture reveals Him as the Messiah who fulfills the Torah, not abolishes it (Matthew 5:17), calling us to reflect His righteousness (tsedeqah) in all we do. While overt mockery wounds His heart, subtle inconsistencies—like lukewarm faith or trivializing sin—also grieve Him, as they dim the light of His grace and truth. Let’s examine ourselves daily (2 Corinthians 13:5), trusting His forgiveness (1 John 1:9) to realign us with His purpose, so our lives proclaim the King who redeemed us—not just in creed, but in also deed.