“But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.””
Romans 10:8-13 NKJV
You think the thief on the cross got down and was baptized? Or are you suggesting that Yashuah was incorrect telling the thief that he would be in His Fathers kingdom?
Thank you so much for reading the article and sharing your thoughts. I truly appreciate your engagement and interest.
Growing up, I believed I was saved because I had accepted Jesus as my Savior by "asking Him into my heart." The church I attended until just two years ago taught that baptism was important for the believer but not essential for salvation. Though it didn’t fully make sense to me, I accepted it because it was what I was taught. I often heard explanations like, "That’s what Mark 16:16 says, but that’s not what it means," yet no scriptural support was ever given for the idea that baptism was "nonessential" or merely "an outward sign of an inward faith."
Eventually, I decided to seek the truth for myself. I came across a podcast titled Objections to Baptism and thought, “Finally, this will give me the answers I need!” But what I heard wasn’t what I was expecting. This sparked a deeper study of my Bible, where I carefully examined the references, studied context, and sought to confirm the belief that baptism wasn’t necessary. Yet, time and time again, I found the same consistent pattern: belief, repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living.
When I turned to Acts 2 and the account of Pentecost, I saw that the men were “cut to the heart” and asked Peter what they must do to be saved. These individuals already believed, but Peter didn’t tell them, “There’s nothing more to do—you’re already saved.” Nor did he say, “Just pray and ask Jesus into your heart.” Instead, he told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Then I considered Paul, who wrote much of the New Testament. His conversion shows that faith alone is insufficient. After encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus and acknowledging Him as Lord, Paul wasn’t declared saved on the spot. Instead, Jesus instructed him to go into the city, where he would be told what to do. When Ananias arrived, Paul was praying (a clear sign of repentance), yet Ananias didn’t tell him to say a prayer for salvation. Instead, he commanded him to “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). This made it clear to me that baptism is the moment when sins are washed away, making it essential for salvation.
I apologize if this feels lengthy, but I wanted to share a bit of my background with you.
If you revisit the article or explore others I’ve written on baptism and salvation, you’ll notice that the emphasis isn’t on baptism alone. Hearing, faith, repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living are all essential components of the pattern laid out for us in the New Testament. Jesus Himself commanded baptism (Mark 16:16), and if we love Him, we are to keep His commandments (1 John 5:3). It’s by His word that we will be judged (John 12:48). It's about faithful obedience.
The challenge is that over time, many have distorted or dismissed Scripture, claiming that baptism isn’t essential while still acknowledging that Jesus commanded it. Such contradictory teachings are both dangerous and misleading.
As for the thief on the cross, we know very little about his background. He could have been baptized under John’s baptism, or he could have been innocent like Jesus. What we do know is that he acknowledged Jesus as Lord, which indicates some prior knowledge of Him. More importantly, the New Covenant, which we are under, wasn’t in effect at that time. While on earth, Jesus had the authority to forgive sins directly.
For further study, here are a couple of articles that explore the biblical pattern of salvation:
“So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.”
Acts 16:31-33 NKJV
You have to believe before you’re baptized no one would be willing to be baptized before they are made a new creation
Thank you again for your willingness to engage in this discussion respectfully. I truly appreciate it, as conversations like these are beneficial for everyone involved. I agree that belief is essential for someone to be baptized. However, I don’t believe that belief alone marks the point of salvation.
Let’s consider a couple of key points:
Acts 16 is a wonderful passage, though it is often taken out of context with a heavy focus on Acts 16:31. It’s important to notice the sequence of events or the pattern presented in the text. The jailer and his household were told to believe (and belief here, as used in scripture, is not mere mental or verbal assent but rather an active, trusting, and obedient faith). Following this, they were taught the word of the Lord. How could they have believed before being taught? It wasn’t until they heard the word that they could act on it.
After being taught, what did they do immediately? They didn’t wait for a crowd or for a special baptism service. Baptism was treated as a matter of urgency. They were baptized, and only then, as verse 34 notes, did they rejoice:
"Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."
Why was baptism included if it wasn’t essential? How did they even know about baptism unless it was taught as part of the word of the Lord? If belief alone were sufficient, they could have rejoiced and shared a meal right after being taught. Yet, their rejoicing came only after their baptism.
We see a similar situation with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. When Philip preached Jesus to him, the eunuch saw water and urgently requested to be baptized. After his baptism, we see a similar outcome: he went on his way rejoicing.
Romans 6:3-4 also ties into this beautifully. It tells us that we are buried with Christ in baptism and that we begin walking in newness of life at that point. Just as others in scripture rejoiced after their baptism, this passage reminds us that new life begins when we are united with Christ in this way.
Belief alone cannot be the point of salvation. James 2:24 clearly states that we are justified not by faith alone. Likewise, salvation does not rest solely on baptism, repentance, or confession. All of these elements must work together in faithful obedience.
I believe you would agree that we cannot be saved without having our sins washed away, which occurs at the point of baptism, as stated in Acts 22:16: “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Additionally, I would hope you agree that no one can be saved if they are not in Christ. Belief alone does not place us in Christ—baptism does. Galatians 3:27 says, “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
So, while belief is undoubtedly necessary, scripture makes it clear that faith alone does not save. Salvation comes through faithful obedience to God’s word.
I want to emphasize that my goal here is not to win an argument or to argue at all. I hope that comes across clearly. My intention is simply to explain what I believe to be true based on scripture, as accurately and clearly as possible.
Baptized by the Holy Spirit and fire but not saved is what you all all are claiming. All of your arguments fall short. One says but but but that only happened once… another says we don’t know if the thief was baptized but he must’ve because that’s what my theory is. Whenever you dismiss what the Bible says because of your feelings are your dangerously close to heresy. I’m not sure any scripture will change your minds but I will still defend the scripture for anyone else that’s stumbled across my comments.
Remember, Romans was addressed to the church, those who have already been baptized. They understood when Paul spoke of salvation it included baptism. If you go back to Romans 6:3, 4-“Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life.” Paul clearly stresses the importance baptism.
“To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?””
As Peter explained to the Jews when he reported back to Jerusalem, God did this to show the Jews that the Gentiles were accepted by God as well. That was a special circumstance. This happened only once in the New Testament. But even at that, Peter still told them to be baptized. If they were already saved, why did they have to be baptized?
Again, only that one time as a special circumstance. In the first gospel sermon in Acts 2, Peter concluded with repent and be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Verse 38).
Respectfully, you fail to make the distinction between spiritual baptism and the outward sign of an inner reality.
How you were taught this I do not know. Many verses speak clearly to this so saying “this is what the bible says” hinges on your interpretation which differs from other godly mens opinions.
Thank you for reading my article. I appreciate your thoughts and for adding to the conversation.
I understand that many make a distinction between spiritual baptism and water baptism, and I think it's essential that we let Scripture define these terms rather than relying on personal interpretation or tradition.
The Bible does speak of a unique spiritual baptism, but it is not something that applies to all believers in the same way as water baptism. For example, in Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I... He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." This was fulfilled in specific instances, such as Acts 2 when the apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in Acts 10 when Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit. These were extraordinary events marking the inclusion of Jews and Gentiles into the church, not the standard means by which all believers receive salvation.
However, when we look at the commands given to all believers, the baptism consistently practiced and commanded is water baptism. Jesus commanded His disciples in Matthew 28:19 to "go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." In Mark 16:16, He stated, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."
In every conversion account in Acts, we see water baptism as an immediate response to faith in Christ. For example:
The Jews at Pentecost were told to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).
The Ethiopian eunuch asked, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" and was baptized immediately (Acts 8:36-39).
Paul was told, "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16).
Nowhere in Scripture do we see water baptism treated as merely an "outward sign" of an inner reality. Instead, it is consistently tied to the remission of sins and entry into Christ (Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4). The phrase can actually be traced back to Augustine. It is a man-made doctrine and not one found in scripture.
Again, I appreciate this discussion and your comment. I will actually address both more thoroughly in upcoming articles. Thanks again!
You weren't terse at all. It's good to have respectful discussion. I truly appreciate discussing this with you in a spirit of respect and seeking truth together.
I completely agree that we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Without God's grace, none of us could be saved. But I also believe that faith, as described in Scripture, is more than just belief—it is faithful obedience to God's will.
Interestingly, faith itself is called a work in Scripture. In John 6:28-29, when people asked Jesus, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" He answered, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." So, if baptism is dismissed as a "work," then belief must be as well—but we know faith is necessary for salvation. There is a difference between works of merit, works of the law, and works of faithful obedience.
Furthermore, the only place in Scripture where "faith alone" is explicitly mentioned is in James 2:24, which states, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." James makes it clear that faith without works is dead (James 2:17, 26). The Bible does not teach salvation by mere belief; it teaches salvation by faithful obedience—a living, active faith that submits to God's commands (Hebrews 5:9).
Baptism is not a work of merit, but an act of faith in response to God's grace. In Acts 2:38, Peter, inspired by the Holy Spirit, tells believers to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." Jesus Himself said in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Romans 6:3-4 explains that we are "buried with Him through baptism into death" and raised to walk in newness of life.
Salvation is truly by grace, but grace teaches us to respond in obedient faith (Titus 2:11-12). Faith isn't just mental agreement; it is trust in action. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts—I appreciate the discussion and the opportunity to study God’s Word together!
I will kindly say that I simply make an absolute distinction between faith as truly believing the gospel, trusting alone in the saving work of Jesus Christ, and the subsequent acts of faith, that is faithfulness.
The sacrament of water baptism is in the latter category and therefore not required for salvation though it ought to be done.
Spiritual baptism occurs when one is born again the moment a person truly believes the good news.
Confusing the two necessitates a works based salvation which is anathema to me.
Thank you again for keeping this discussion open and respectful. I truly appreciate it, and I know it is beneficial for others who may be reading as well. The most important thing is that we go to Scripture to test what we hear and read (Acts 17:11) and ensure that our beliefs align with God's word.
You mention that salvation comes at the point of belief, but I do not find a single passage in Scripture that states we are saved at the point of belief alone. In fact, James 2:19 states:
"You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"
Clearly, belief alone does not save, as even demons believe in God but are not saved. James continues in verse 24:
"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."
If salvation occurred at the point of belief and obedience simply followed afterward, the passage would have said, "A man is justified by belief, and then works will follow." But it does not say that. Instead, it explicitly denies justification by faith alone.
I also have to ask: How could one be saved without repenting and confessing? If salvation comes at the moment of belief, does that mean repentance and confession are unnecessary? That would contradict Scripture.
Repentance is essential. Jesus Himself said:
"Unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3)
Peter, preaching on the day of Pentecost, told those convicted by the gospel:
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." (Acts 2:38)
Clearly, repentance is not optional but necessary for salvation.
Confession is also required. Romans 10:9 states:
"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
So, while belief is absolutely essential, it is not the only requirement. Nor is belief the point at which salvation is received. The Bible teaches that repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living are also necessary acts of faith. The Christian life is referred to as a race (Hebrews 12:1; 2 Timothy 4:7), and we are called to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13). This endurance is necessary for salvation. (Revelation 2:10)
Regarding baptism, you refer to it as a sacrament, but where in Scripture is that term used? Jesus commanded baptism in Matthew 28:19:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
If Jesus commanded it, by what authority do we determine whether it is necessary for salvation? Saying we "ought" to obey it but that it is not essential is not scriptural. If Christ commanded it, who are we to decide otherwise?
You also mention spiritual baptism occurring when one believes, but I cannot find a single passage that states this. Could you provide a scriptural reference for it? The Bible consistently associates baptism with the point at which sins are washed away:
"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
It also describes baptism as the moment we are buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life:
"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:3-4)
I sincerely appreciate this discussion and your willingness to share your beliefs. My goal is not to argue but to seek the truth of God’s word together. We should all strive to study with open hearts and a desire to obey Christ in all things.
Paul said “but was do the scriptures say” to prove his arguments so so should we.
To say you cannot find a single verse that says salvation comes when one believes boggles my mind. Just do a search on “believe” in any translation and you will hundreds.
For instance....
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness. (Genesis 15:6, NASB)
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13, NASB)
James and Paul, are not addressing what I called saving faith, or belief that results in justification by the grace of God.
Two go-to passages by the crowd who insist on faith plus works does not nullify hundred of verses and long passages that clearly say otherwise.
For instance....
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Justification by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19, NASB)
Repentance and confession are indeed part of the package of saving faith. They are not works but heart attitudes, not like water baptism which is an action.
Confession is also part of the package is saving faith. It is not an action but an inner conviction.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. (Psalms 51:17, NASB)
You say - So, while belief is absolutely essential, it is not the only requirement. Nor is belief the point at which salvation is received. The Bible teaches that repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living are also necessary acts of faith. The Christian life is referred to as a race (Hebrews 12:1; 2 Timothy 4:7), and we are called to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13). This endurance is necessary for salvation. (Revelation 2:10)
I say nope. All the things you mentioned in this paragraph are the fruit of saving faith (which justifies) and the results expected when one believes in Jesus as Lord and Saviour, traditionally understood as sanctification. (Repentance and confession, from the heart, not external acts are, as mentioned above part of the package of saving faith).
You - Regarding baptism, you refer to it as a sacrament, but where in Scripture is that term used? Jesus commanded baptism in Matthew 28:19:
The term sacrament is indeed not found but neither is the word Trinity. Does the Trinity exist?
You - “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Jesus also commanded us to love our enemies. Do you do that perfectly? If perfect obedience is required we are all doomed. Yes, we should be baptized but it is not a deal breaker when we are born again, being baptized by the Holy Spirit.
You - You also mention spiritual baptism occurring when one believes, but I cannot find a single passage that states this. Could you provide a scriptural reference?
Yes I can. One is the one you mentioned yourself....
"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:3-4)
Also...(again)
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13, NASB)
Also...
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? (Galatians 3:2, NASB)
Fair enough but this statement seems like a contradiction to me. “I fully acknowledge that I cannot make my own way to salvation, nor can works of merit earn it. However, faithful obedience is required, and that is consistently taught throughout scripture.”
How much faithful obedience is required in addition to initial saving faith?
Faithful obedience will indeed occur. I am no antinomian. But it contributes absolutely nothing to being right with God on the basis of Jesus’ perfect obedience, and not one iota of our own.
“But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.””
Romans 10:8-13 NKJV
You think the thief on the cross got down and was baptized? Or are you suggesting that Yashuah was incorrect telling the thief that he would be in His Fathers kingdom?
Hi Jared,
Thank you so much for reading the article and sharing your thoughts. I truly appreciate your engagement and interest.
Growing up, I believed I was saved because I had accepted Jesus as my Savior by "asking Him into my heart." The church I attended until just two years ago taught that baptism was important for the believer but not essential for salvation. Though it didn’t fully make sense to me, I accepted it because it was what I was taught. I often heard explanations like, "That’s what Mark 16:16 says, but that’s not what it means," yet no scriptural support was ever given for the idea that baptism was "nonessential" or merely "an outward sign of an inward faith."
Eventually, I decided to seek the truth for myself. I came across a podcast titled Objections to Baptism and thought, “Finally, this will give me the answers I need!” But what I heard wasn’t what I was expecting. This sparked a deeper study of my Bible, where I carefully examined the references, studied context, and sought to confirm the belief that baptism wasn’t necessary. Yet, time and time again, I found the same consistent pattern: belief, repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living.
When I turned to Acts 2 and the account of Pentecost, I saw that the men were “cut to the heart” and asked Peter what they must do to be saved. These individuals already believed, but Peter didn’t tell them, “There’s nothing more to do—you’re already saved.” Nor did he say, “Just pray and ask Jesus into your heart.” Instead, he told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
Then I considered Paul, who wrote much of the New Testament. His conversion shows that faith alone is insufficient. After encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus and acknowledging Him as Lord, Paul wasn’t declared saved on the spot. Instead, Jesus instructed him to go into the city, where he would be told what to do. When Ananias arrived, Paul was praying (a clear sign of repentance), yet Ananias didn’t tell him to say a prayer for salvation. Instead, he commanded him to “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16). This made it clear to me that baptism is the moment when sins are washed away, making it essential for salvation.
I apologize if this feels lengthy, but I wanted to share a bit of my background with you.
If you revisit the article or explore others I’ve written on baptism and salvation, you’ll notice that the emphasis isn’t on baptism alone. Hearing, faith, repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living are all essential components of the pattern laid out for us in the New Testament. Jesus Himself commanded baptism (Mark 16:16), and if we love Him, we are to keep His commandments (1 John 5:3). It’s by His word that we will be judged (John 12:48). It's about faithful obedience.
The challenge is that over time, many have distorted or dismissed Scripture, claiming that baptism isn’t essential while still acknowledging that Jesus commanded it. Such contradictory teachings are both dangerous and misleading.
As for the thief on the cross, we know very little about his background. He could have been baptized under John’s baptism, or he could have been innocent like Jesus. What we do know is that he acknowledged Jesus as Lord, which indicates some prior knowledge of Him. More importantly, the New Covenant, which we are under, wasn’t in effect at that time. While on earth, Jesus had the authority to forgive sins directly.
For further study, here are a couple of articles that explore the biblical pattern of salvation:
Being in Christ - https://thegreatergood.substack.com/p/being-in-christ?utm_source=publication-search
Salvation: More Than Just Belief - https://thegreatergood.substack.com/p/salvation-more-than-just-belief?utm_source=publication-search
Thank you again for your thoughtful comment, and I hope this helps clarify where I’m coming from.
Well said and correct.
“So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.”
Acts 16:31-33 NKJV
You have to believe before you’re baptized no one would be willing to be baptized before they are made a new creation
Thank you again for your willingness to engage in this discussion respectfully. I truly appreciate it, as conversations like these are beneficial for everyone involved. I agree that belief is essential for someone to be baptized. However, I don’t believe that belief alone marks the point of salvation.
Let’s consider a couple of key points:
Acts 16 is a wonderful passage, though it is often taken out of context with a heavy focus on Acts 16:31. It’s important to notice the sequence of events or the pattern presented in the text. The jailer and his household were told to believe (and belief here, as used in scripture, is not mere mental or verbal assent but rather an active, trusting, and obedient faith). Following this, they were taught the word of the Lord. How could they have believed before being taught? It wasn’t until they heard the word that they could act on it.
After being taught, what did they do immediately? They didn’t wait for a crowd or for a special baptism service. Baptism was treated as a matter of urgency. They were baptized, and only then, as verse 34 notes, did they rejoice:
"Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."
Why was baptism included if it wasn’t essential? How did they even know about baptism unless it was taught as part of the word of the Lord? If belief alone were sufficient, they could have rejoiced and shared a meal right after being taught. Yet, their rejoicing came only after their baptism.
We see a similar situation with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. When Philip preached Jesus to him, the eunuch saw water and urgently requested to be baptized. After his baptism, we see a similar outcome: he went on his way rejoicing.
Romans 6:3-4 also ties into this beautifully. It tells us that we are buried with Christ in baptism and that we begin walking in newness of life at that point. Just as others in scripture rejoiced after their baptism, this passage reminds us that new life begins when we are united with Christ in this way.
Belief alone cannot be the point of salvation. James 2:24 clearly states that we are justified not by faith alone. Likewise, salvation does not rest solely on baptism, repentance, or confession. All of these elements must work together in faithful obedience.
I believe you would agree that we cannot be saved without having our sins washed away, which occurs at the point of baptism, as stated in Acts 22:16: “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Additionally, I would hope you agree that no one can be saved if they are not in Christ. Belief alone does not place us in Christ—baptism does. Galatians 3:27 says, “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
So, while belief is undoubtedly necessary, scripture makes it clear that faith alone does not save. Salvation comes through faithful obedience to God’s word.
I want to emphasize that my goal here is not to win an argument or to argue at all. I hope that comes across clearly. My intention is simply to explain what I believe to be true based on scripture, as accurately and clearly as possible.
Baptized by the Holy Spirit and fire but not saved is what you all all are claiming. All of your arguments fall short. One says but but but that only happened once… another says we don’t know if the thief was baptized but he must’ve because that’s what my theory is. Whenever you dismiss what the Bible says because of your feelings are your dangerously close to heresy. I’m not sure any scripture will change your minds but I will still defend the scripture for anyone else that’s stumbled across my comments.
Remember, Romans was addressed to the church, those who have already been baptized. They understood when Paul spoke of salvation it included baptism. If you go back to Romans 6:3, 4-“Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life.” Paul clearly stresses the importance baptism.
“To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.” While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?””
Acts 10:43-47 NKJV
Their conversion happened prior to their baptism
As Peter explained to the Jews when he reported back to Jerusalem, God did this to show the Jews that the Gentiles were accepted by God as well. That was a special circumstance. This happened only once in the New Testament. But even at that, Peter still told them to be baptized. If they were already saved, why did they have to be baptized?
Again I’m not refuting baptism. I’m saying that conversion happens prior to baptism. The Holy Spirit was indwelling in them prior to baptism
Again, only that one time as a special circumstance. In the first gospel sermon in Acts 2, Peter concluded with repent and be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Verse 38).
I’m not suggesting baptism isn’t commanded or shouldn’t be done. I think you missed the point
Respectfully, you fail to make the distinction between spiritual baptism and the outward sign of an inner reality.
How you were taught this I do not know. Many verses speak clearly to this so saying “this is what the bible says” hinges on your interpretation which differs from other godly mens opinions.
Blessings
Thank you for reading my article. I appreciate your thoughts and for adding to the conversation.
I understand that many make a distinction between spiritual baptism and water baptism, and I think it's essential that we let Scripture define these terms rather than relying on personal interpretation or tradition.
The Bible does speak of a unique spiritual baptism, but it is not something that applies to all believers in the same way as water baptism. For example, in Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I... He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." This was fulfilled in specific instances, such as Acts 2 when the apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and in Acts 10 when Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit. These were extraordinary events marking the inclusion of Jews and Gentiles into the church, not the standard means by which all believers receive salvation.
However, when we look at the commands given to all believers, the baptism consistently practiced and commanded is water baptism. Jesus commanded His disciples in Matthew 28:19 to "go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." In Mark 16:16, He stated, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."
In every conversion account in Acts, we see water baptism as an immediate response to faith in Christ. For example:
The Jews at Pentecost were told to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38).
The Ethiopian eunuch asked, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" and was baptized immediately (Acts 8:36-39).
Paul was told, "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (Acts 22:16).
Nowhere in Scripture do we see water baptism treated as merely an "outward sign" of an inner reality. Instead, it is consistently tied to the remission of sins and entry into Christ (Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4). The phrase can actually be traced back to Augustine. It is a man-made doctrine and not one found in scripture.
Again, I appreciate this discussion and your comment. I will actually address both more thoroughly in upcoming articles. Thanks again!
Thanks for being polite Kenneth as I can be a little terse at times.
Here’s something to think about.
I believe we are saved by grace through faith, period.
Adding baptism as something we must do is adding works, or merit on our part to achieve salvation.
So grace plus baptism is really no longer grace through faith alone.
Jesus did it all on the cross. We do nothing but believe and are saved.
You weren't terse at all. It's good to have respectful discussion. I truly appreciate discussing this with you in a spirit of respect and seeking truth together.
I completely agree that we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). Without God's grace, none of us could be saved. But I also believe that faith, as described in Scripture, is more than just belief—it is faithful obedience to God's will.
Interestingly, faith itself is called a work in Scripture. In John 6:28-29, when people asked Jesus, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" He answered, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." So, if baptism is dismissed as a "work," then belief must be as well—but we know faith is necessary for salvation. There is a difference between works of merit, works of the law, and works of faithful obedience.
Furthermore, the only place in Scripture where "faith alone" is explicitly mentioned is in James 2:24, which states, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." James makes it clear that faith without works is dead (James 2:17, 26). The Bible does not teach salvation by mere belief; it teaches salvation by faithful obedience—a living, active faith that submits to God's commands (Hebrews 5:9).
Baptism is not a work of merit, but an act of faith in response to God's grace. In Acts 2:38, Peter, inspired by the Holy Spirit, tells believers to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." Jesus Himself said in Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Romans 6:3-4 explains that we are "buried with Him through baptism into death" and raised to walk in newness of life.
Salvation is truly by grace, but grace teaches us to respond in obedient faith (Titus 2:11-12). Faith isn't just mental agreement; it is trust in action. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts—I appreciate the discussion and the opportunity to study God’s Word together!
I will kindly say that I simply make an absolute distinction between faith as truly believing the gospel, trusting alone in the saving work of Jesus Christ, and the subsequent acts of faith, that is faithfulness.
The sacrament of water baptism is in the latter category and therefore not required for salvation though it ought to be done.
Spiritual baptism occurs when one is born again the moment a person truly believes the good news.
Confusing the two necessitates a works based salvation which is anathema to me.
Blessings
Thank you again for keeping this discussion open and respectful. I truly appreciate it, and I know it is beneficial for others who may be reading as well. The most important thing is that we go to Scripture to test what we hear and read (Acts 17:11) and ensure that our beliefs align with God's word.
You mention that salvation comes at the point of belief, but I do not find a single passage in Scripture that states we are saved at the point of belief alone. In fact, James 2:19 states:
"You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"
Clearly, belief alone does not save, as even demons believe in God but are not saved. James continues in verse 24:
"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."
If salvation occurred at the point of belief and obedience simply followed afterward, the passage would have said, "A man is justified by belief, and then works will follow." But it does not say that. Instead, it explicitly denies justification by faith alone.
I also have to ask: How could one be saved without repenting and confessing? If salvation comes at the moment of belief, does that mean repentance and confession are unnecessary? That would contradict Scripture.
Repentance is essential. Jesus Himself said:
"Unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3)
Peter, preaching on the day of Pentecost, told those convicted by the gospel:
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." (Acts 2:38)
Clearly, repentance is not optional but necessary for salvation.
Confession is also required. Romans 10:9 states:
"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
So, while belief is absolutely essential, it is not the only requirement. Nor is belief the point at which salvation is received. The Bible teaches that repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living are also necessary acts of faith. The Christian life is referred to as a race (Hebrews 12:1; 2 Timothy 4:7), and we are called to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13). This endurance is necessary for salvation. (Revelation 2:10)
Regarding baptism, you refer to it as a sacrament, but where in Scripture is that term used? Jesus commanded baptism in Matthew 28:19:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
If Jesus commanded it, by what authority do we determine whether it is necessary for salvation? Saying we "ought" to obey it but that it is not essential is not scriptural. If Christ commanded it, who are we to decide otherwise?
You also mention spiritual baptism occurring when one believes, but I cannot find a single passage that states this. Could you provide a scriptural reference for it? The Bible consistently associates baptism with the point at which sins are washed away:
"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
It also describes baptism as the moment we are buried with Christ and raised to walk in newness of life:
"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:3-4)
I sincerely appreciate this discussion and your willingness to share your beliefs. My goal is not to argue but to seek the truth of God’s word together. We should all strive to study with open hearts and a desire to obey Christ in all things.
Paul said “but was do the scriptures say” to prove his arguments so so should we.
To say you cannot find a single verse that says salvation comes when one believes boggles my mind. Just do a search on “believe” in any translation and you will hundreds.
For instance....
Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness. (Genesis 15:6, NASB)
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13, NASB)
James and Paul, are not addressing what I called saving faith, or belief that results in justification by the grace of God.
Two go-to passages by the crowd who insist on faith plus works does not nullify hundred of verses and long passages that clearly say otherwise.
For instance....
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Justification by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19, NASB)
Repentance and confession are indeed part of the package of saving faith. They are not works but heart attitudes, not like water baptism which is an action.
Confession is also part of the package is saving faith. It is not an action but an inner conviction.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. (Psalms 51:17, NASB)
You say - So, while belief is absolutely essential, it is not the only requirement. Nor is belief the point at which salvation is received. The Bible teaches that repentance, confession, baptism, and faithful living are also necessary acts of faith. The Christian life is referred to as a race (Hebrews 12:1; 2 Timothy 4:7), and we are called to "endure to the end" (Matthew 24:13). This endurance is necessary for salvation. (Revelation 2:10)
I say nope. All the things you mentioned in this paragraph are the fruit of saving faith (which justifies) and the results expected when one believes in Jesus as Lord and Saviour, traditionally understood as sanctification. (Repentance and confession, from the heart, not external acts are, as mentioned above part of the package of saving faith).
You - Regarding baptism, you refer to it as a sacrament, but where in Scripture is that term used? Jesus commanded baptism in Matthew 28:19:
The term sacrament is indeed not found but neither is the word Trinity. Does the Trinity exist?
You - “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Jesus also commanded us to love our enemies. Do you do that perfectly? If perfect obedience is required we are all doomed. Yes, we should be baptized but it is not a deal breaker when we are born again, being baptized by the Holy Spirit.
You - You also mention spiritual baptism occurring when one believes, but I cannot find a single passage that states this. Could you provide a scriptural reference?
Yes I can. One is the one you mentioned yourself....
"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:3-4)
Also...(again)
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13, NASB)
Also...
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? (Galatians 3:2, NASB)
Blessings,
Fair enough but this statement seems like a contradiction to me. “I fully acknowledge that I cannot make my own way to salvation, nor can works of merit earn it. However, faithful obedience is required, and that is consistently taught throughout scripture.”
How much faithful obedience is required in addition to initial saving faith?
Faithful obedience will indeed occur. I am no antinomian. But it contributes absolutely nothing to being right with God on the basis of Jesus’ perfect obedience, and not one iota of our own.
Thx for the convo. I will let it go now.
Blessings
Great concise article on the necessity of baptism! Great Job!
Thank you, I appreciate the encouragement. I just hope others read it with an open mind and go to scripture to see what is taught.